TIME: Almanac 1993/TIME Almanac 1993.iso/time/070891/0708510.000

Text File | 1992-08-28 | 9.5 KB | 224 lines

                                                                                INTERVIEW, Page 52

Walking Out on The Boys


Dr. FRANCES CONLEY, tired of being called "honey" by male
surgeons, resigned from the Stanford medical school. Last week a
professor there was charged with sexual harassment.

By ELIZABETH L'HOMMEDIEU/PALO ALTO and Frances Conley


    Q. After 16 years as a professor at Stanford, you resigned
abruptly, charging what you called "gender insensitivity" on the
part of male colleagues. Most people interpreted that to mean
sexual harassment. Were you sexually harassed?

    A. I am not talking about sexual harassment. I think
harassment is too volatile a term. Sexism is one way of
describing it. It is a pervasive attitude problem. The examples
I can give will seem trivial, but they are real, and they do
affect a person who has a professional life. If I am in an
operating room, I have to be in control of the team that is
working with me. That control is established because people
respect who I am and what I can do. If a man walks into the
operating room and says, "How's it going, honey?", what happens
to my control? It disappears because every woman who is working
in that room with me has also been called "honey" by this same
guy, and it means all of a sudden I don't have the status of a
surgeon in control of the case being done. I have suddenly
become a fellow "honey."


    Q. Surely there is more to it than being called "honey."
Are there any other examples?

    A. When I was younger I would be repeatedly asked to bed
by fellow doctors. This would always happen in front of an
audience. It was always done for effect. Another common example
is that if I have a disagreement with my male counterparts, I
generally tend to get the label of being "difficult" because I
am suffering from PMS syndrome or because I am "on the rag."
That is a gender-identification problem. You can't say that to
a male counterpart who disagrees with you. These men tend to use
the female image and those things that are perceived by society
as making women inferior, i.e., the fact that we are different
biologically, and they make that the focus of their dealing with
me. I define that as sexism. It is not sexual harassment. I have
had male doctors run their hands up my leg, never in an
operating room, but in meetings. It is always done for an
audience. Two months ago, I stood up to leave a meeting of all
men and me, and as I stood up one of them said to me, "Gee, I
can see the shape of your breasts, even through your white
coat." I am sorry, but to me that is not right.


    Q. Why wouldn't men do this to you simply because you are
an attractive woman?

    A. I have analyzed it, and I believe it's because they
cannot see me as a peer. They have to establish a relationship
that makes me inferior to them. The one they can immediately
grab onto is a sexual relationship where the man is supposed to
be dominant and the woman subservient.


    Q. You've said twice now that these sexist remarks are
made in front of an audience. Why would that be?

    A. They have to show their peers that they do not accept
this woman as an equal.


    Q. You have been a surgeon for 25 years. Why did you
tolerate this kind of treatment for so long?

    A. In order for a female to get taken into the club, which
is necessary in order to get cases and to get trained, you have
to become a member. I decided that I would go along because I
wanted to get to where I wanted to be. I really wanted to be a
neurosurgeon. I thought I could be a good neurosurgeon. Had I
made an issue of some of the things that were happening during
the time that I was a resident, I wouldn't have gotten to where
I am.


    Q. How pervasive do you think this kind of treatment of
female doctors is?

    A. The vast majority of men that I have worked with -- and
there have been a lot of them -- are wonderful, warm, supportive
human beings who make me feel good about me when I am with them.
It is just a few bad apples, but those bad apples can make you
feel pretty small.


    Q. Are all the "bad apples" concentrated in the Stanford
neurosurgery department?

    A. No, they are not. I would say they are much more
concentrated in the surgery department across all specialties
rather than in, say, pediatric medicine or anesthesia.


    Q. What do you think you have accomplished by resigning?

    A. First, I will be able to rebuild myself and regain my
self-dignity. When I resigned, I had not intended to make a
statement. As it turned out, I did, because I wrote a letter to
a local newspaper, and that does make a statement. Many media
people said, "You are so naive." I really had not anticipated
the reaction to the editorial I wrote. I have been amazed. It
is like an abscess that has been festering for years. It's been
getting bigger and bigger. What I did was throw a scalpel at it
and opened it. Now there is pus running all over the floor. What
I have done, I hope, is help others open up a dialogue about
this. If we can get men and women to start talking to one
another about what gender insensitivity means, then we will have
accomplished a great deal.


    Q. The day after you resigned, you attended a
student-faculty senate meeting at which one student described
a teacher's using a sex doll to "spice up" a lecture, and
another student said her breasts had been fondled. This must
have struck a chord with you.

    A. I think the thing that hit me the most was realizing
that these were medical students complaining, and they are
having these kinds of problems in their learning place, where
they are supposed to be free to learn and to train to become
professionals. This is a pervasive, global problem for women who
are trying to get into professional careers. I think the reason
it is coming out is because of the critical numbers. Since close
to 50% of Stanford's medical classes can be women, when you do
something in a class that is sexist in nature, you're offending
not four people but 40.


    Q. Stanford President Donald Kennedy has just brought
disciplinary charges of sexual harassment and professional
misconduct against a male cardiology professor. The charges are
based on complaints that two female medical students filed with
the university several months prior to your resignation. Do you
think your resignation played a part in the university's
decision to take action?

    A. No. I do not believe that my situation influenced this
decision. I know nothing about this case. I have enough faith
in the people who run the university to feel that they are doing
what is right regardless of whether or not I have made a flap.
I do not think that Kennedy or any other people would have taken
my resignation into account.


    Q. You have said that the structure of medicine was set up
for men by men. How do you think medicine would differ were it
to be set up by women?

    A. It would be far less dictatorial. It would be
management by committee -- by teamwork. Uniformly, my operating
room is a team, and I believe this to be true of most women's
O.R.s. The people who work with me are respected, professional,
and do a job. We are all doing a job to reach a common goal,
and that is to take good care of that patient. I think the
nurses feel as if they have tremendous self-worth when they are
in my O.R. There are lots of pleases and lots of thank yous. My
operating room is a happy environment.


    Q. Where does Stanford president Donald Kennedy stand on
all this?

    A. I have spoken with Kennedy, and I think he is very
supportive. I am not sure he was aware that the
gender-relationship problems were quite as significant as they
are, and I think he has been most surprised by that. I know he
has been getting an earful, because I have been getting copies
of many letters that have been sent to him.


    Q. You have said that with so many more females in medical
schools across the country, their environments must change. What
steps would you suggest?

    A. One is to raise the level of consciousness about this
type of behavior so that the consciousness is ongoing. The
second is to be sure that the appointments that are made to
executive positions are made with a great deal of care as to
what that person's feelings are and how they relate not only to
women but also to minorities, nurses and secretaries. It has to
be an environment where people are respected for being people
-- where every person has self-worth and dignity. There would
also be value in having more women in higher administrative
positions in medical schools, where the decisions are being
made.


    Q. What has been your husband's reaction to your
resignation?

    A. He has been very supportive of it, primarily because he
has been very aware of my unhappiness. He, too, has been
flabbergasted by the supportive response and feels that it
should have come out a long time ago.


    Q. How has he handled all your private complaints over the
years?

    A. He has always let me be a very independent person, and
that has been terribly important for me so that I could develop
as a professional the way I wanted to. I think at times he has
been distressed by my complaints. He will occasionally make
sniping comments at people who he thinks have been demeaning to
me, but he hasn't wanted to jeopardize that which I have done.
He has been very careful not to be actively entered into the
situation, but he has always been phenomenally supportive of me.